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Destiny 2's Crucible experience is the worst it's ever been between both Destinys.

Preface: I am a day one Destiny player and a Day one destiny 2 player. I am currently at 4.7k Glory Rank after resetting twice and I only Solo queue for ranked. I only play Elimination, Freelance: Survival, and Showdown when its in rotation. In Destiny 1, I had gone flawless countless times and in Destiny 2, I have both the Unbroken and Flawless titles, and 90% of my time in game is spent in Crucible. I know a lot about this game, its mechanics, and its downfalls. I play both Playstation 4 and PC.
I truly do care about this game and i've been a supporter of the Destiny franchise for years. I've made and lost friends, had moments where i've screamed at the top of my lungs because i've gotten a piece of gear I had been dying to find, and i've had moments my heart felt like it would explode from tension and stress of clutching 1v3 on the last win of a Flawless trials card. As much as I love this game, I want to give my honest criticisms and possible solutions to the problems I find myself and most other players having with the part of the game I indulge in most.
Why Crucible is in the worst state it's ever been in:
In Destiny 1, Crucible was not perfect, but I can boldly say it was far more balanced than Destiny 2's Crucible. The reason it was better balanced was simple. You did not spawn with special ammo, therefore each of your engagements for the first part of the match required you to outplay your enemy in direct primary combat. Spawning without the potential to instantly kill your enemy meant gunfights lasted longer, positioning was more important, kills and picks were far more meaningful, different playstyles and builds were encouraged, and if you've watched or played Destiny 1's PvP, on every kill, you generated a rather substantial amount of super energy and were rewarded for outplaying your enemies and using your kit to its highest potential.
Crucible was ruined with the introduction of weapons that break the ammo economy, low-skill instant-kill weapons, the Destiny 2 Weapon slotting system, hackers, and connection based matchmaking, and sword peeking (let me explain before you get the pitchforks and torches, please). I will go into each of these problems further below. I'd advise reading through as one thing kind of chains into the next but feel free to skim and scan it.
Why is Crucible important?
Unfortunately, Crucible isn't for a large part of the player base as it was in Destiny 1, but for myself and many others, after I complete the raids, find my god rolls, and my top of the line gear, I play Crucible to test my skill. When there is no endgame left because you've completed all there is to do, all that's left is Crucible. I may sound like I no-life this game but I go to work, and socialize, and see friends. I also don't care to play with others and to get most of the endgame gear, i'm forced to find fireteams and do things i'd rather not do just to enjoy myself in crucible. I just enjoy playing against other players and getting better with my two fireteam buddies that I run trials with.
Crucible's major pitfalls in matchmaking and mechanics.
Connection based matchmaking is a terrible idea. The reason being, is when you're a high skill player playing against people lower than you in skill, it doesn't help you play better. It just becomes a game of bully the less experienced. I'm sure its not fun for them and its not helping you, however I also can understand not wanting to fight other crucible demons every single match which is why I think Showdown should be permanent for skill based matchmaking, and control should remain for connection based matchmaking.
If your connection isn't good enough to run a stable game of Crucible, i'm sorry but you should be kicked from the game and replaced. While it isn't your fault, people can and still do abuse connections to win and it should be eliminated entirely by removing the player. Now Control isn't skill based but your shots also aren't magically not harming the Hunter on the enemy team because they're running a constant 129 ping. 6 stacking should also guarantee you to be matched against other 6 stacks or at least a 4 stack. 6 stacking against 6 solo players on the enemy team nearly guarantee's a win as you have good coordination, call outs, and team play while in most cases, they do not.
As for in-game mechanics:
Any player who really looks to do well in specifically Ranked or Trials, will 99% of the time agree with the notion that there is nothing more important than super energy in high skill game modes. What incentive do I have in engaging the enemy and potentially losing, forcing my team into a disadvantage in a high skill game mode, when I can just spec my armor for 100 intellect and stay behind whilst sword peeking and taking occasional shots here and there with my Revoker and Gnawing Hunger, or Last word and Beloved. I'll get my super first, and if I expect they're running roaming supers, Ill use something to deal with that. (Nightstalker for hunters, Hammers or Thundercrash for Titans, Slowva bomb or Chaos Reach or Dawnblade for Warlocks.) This is why you see people in Trials more often than not, always running 100 intellect. It's great for PvE, but it has no place in Crucible. It forces longer more drawn out games and rewards randomness of hit-registration and who hit who with what super ability first. It's not a fun way to play. Next is how you would go about fixing this problem if ever looked into seriously.
Other than maxing out the intellect stat and waiting, special ammo on spawn and enemy kills allows for instantaneous kills, which throws a wrench in the gears of what Crucible should be: A test of your skill against other players of the same caliber. It should be removed altogether and replaced with regular Special Ammo spawns.
How would you fix Crucible with realistic, easy changes that wouldn't completely force the game into an overhaul?
Simple. Remove Special Ammo from start, and allow for Special Ammo to spawn, after time has passed in the match. Reward kills with more super energy, tone down some supers in Crucible, and make intellect mods only boost the super energy you get on kills, rather than making your super timer go lower. Don't allow players to hold swords if they do not hold sword ammo. Nerf weapons accordingly.
The step by step breakdown.
Like I said in the beginning, in Destiny 1's long lasting reign, Special Ammo boxes would spawn after 3 minutes into a Crucible match, then for 2 minutes consecutively afterwards as stated by the Destiny Wiki. Because you were forced to fight with your Primary weapon from the start of the match, your skill was the ultimate decider of whether or not you won. Winning gun fights with primary weapons felt rewarding back then, and kept you on your toes and gave the developers to allow for extra super energy on kills, as they weren't as easy to get.
Special Ammo boxes were so beneficial because when special ammo did spawn it allowed players of one team to potentially overtake the other team in points and would give you an advantage if you knew how to use your special weapon, as when you died you lost all of your Special Ammo. Special weapon spawns also forced the opposing teams to engage because whoever got ammo first was almost always the victor of the round. Special Ammo and Heavy Ammo drops caused critical turning points in matches where you could catch up if you were behind, provided your team played well with their special weapons.
"Okay but there was still a Primary weapon meta that ruled Destiny 1! Remember Last Word and Thorn and and Hawkmoon and what about the Red Death?".
Yes. I do. And you're 1000% right. Which is why they were exotic weapons. And do you know why that system still wasn't broken and the Dev's truly don't consider it broken? Because as of 5:40 PM August 5th, the Thorn, Last Word, and Red Death have all been added to Destiny 2, albiet the Red Death was turned into a hand cannon and the dev's have already released news that they intend to add Hawkmoon back into Beyond Light with different perks but still strong.
But it also wasn't broken because the weapons that broke the Ammo Currency in Destiny 1 were also exotic. That meant I can choose Last Word and a random sniper that I have to wait to get ammo for, or I can choose to use the Icebreaker sniper rifle, which literally REGENERATED AMMO as the game started and a far less potent primary. Same idea with the Invective, which was rendered useless in Year 2 iirc.
Oh! I know! No Land Beyond and Universal Remote took primary ammo which meant you could use a Sniper or Shotgun from the start of the game! What about those?"
Weapons that broke this rule, (Universal Remote and No Land Beyond) would use primary ammo but they were Exotics. That meant that you had ammo to start, which would allow you to get easier kills, but you could not equip other top-of-the-line exotics, and you didn't have a true primary and even if you picked up Special Ammo you either had:
A: A shotgun and a fusion rifle.
B: A shotgun and a sniper rifle.
C: A shotgun and a shotgun.
D: A shotgun and a sidearm. (abysmal use when compared to Destiny 2)
Replace "shotgun" with "sniper rifle" above, and you have the same choices if you wanted to use No Land Beyond (sniper) instead of Universal Remote (shotgun).
The two Exotics that were slotted as primaries and consumed primary ammo, also had their own quirks to prevent them from being overpowered in high-skill PvP games. Universal Remote was a great shotgun, but only when you aimed down sights as it gave you a significant buff to range and headshot damage, and No Land was a single-fire, slow reloading, iron-sighted sniper rifle that gave you increased precision damage on kill, but you had 12 shots to start with iirc. The Destiny 2 weapon system completely ruined Crucible with the categorical changes from Primary, Special, and Heavy, to Kinetic, Energy, and Power.
Going back to the importance of weapon slotting, lets look at the difference between Destiny 1 and Destiny 2 weapon slotting, by using an example out of primary slot snipers and shotguns from both games.
Universal Remote#:~:text=Universal%20Remote%20is%20a%20level,decrypted%20from%20Primary%20Exotic%20Engrams).- Primary weapon, Medium range, High precision damage, but only when aiming, and you start with 12 shots. (Destiny 1 shotguns don't even compare to Destiny 2 Shotguns since they were nerfed, but the Universal Remote was still very viable.)
Astral Horizon (Destiny 2)- Primary Weapon, Very high range, Average Precision Damage for a Destiny 2 Agressive-Frame shotgun, and you start with 2 shots, but can stack Ammo Scavenger Mods, Shotgun Ammo Finders, and Shotgun Ammo Reserves Mods, and Special Weapon Mods to pick up extra ammo on enemy kill (as long as they have heavy ammo).
The Astral Horizon is better than the Universal Remote in every. Single. Way. It also allows you to get random rolls on it as it is a Legendary weapon, meaning you can have the worse possible roll on it and it would still contend with Destiny 1's Universal Remote.
This is problematic because instead of the Astral Horizon not needing me to pick up ammo before I can use it, and because its not exotic, I can run ridiculous weapon combination that doesn't require me to play smart or carefully.
If i'm being rushed, I have a shotgun. If they're out of shotgun range, I have an auto-rifle or a hand cannon (I use Sun Shot for extra damage over range), and with having a shotgun and hand cannon or auto-rifle, i'm not challenging snipers anyways so there's no risk there. Having special ammo means you don't need to always play smart or play with your team. Don't believe me? How many times how you been rushed down by a hunter or titan using Astral, Mindbenders, Chaperone,First In Last out, etc. Exactly.
Do you not like Trials of Osiris or can't seem to get the god roll Astral Horizon that I was talking about? No worries, everything worthwhile and hard to earn in this game are easily replaceable.
Here's some other shotguns for those who don't play Trials or use shotguns in PvE. Most are sunsetting as of November 10th for the Beyond Light release, but are still plenty viable in non-light based crucible (Everything but Iron Banner and Trials). I personally use a god roll Imperial Decree, which is very easily farmable and is the same archetype whilst still remaining in the Kinetic slot. Even though I have a God Rolled Astral Horizon, I really don't need it unless i'm playing Trials or Iron Banner because I can just substitute it for a more easily obtained Imperial Degree with similar stats.
Why even play the end game content if you can get equal or better gear by doing something much easier.
Still not seeing the problem with D2 weapon balance? Lets talk about Revoker.
I'm not even doing a comparison between Revoker and No Land Beyond. I don't need to. The No Land had high zoom, clustered sights, slow reload, slow ready time, high headshot damage, a relatively useless perk, was exotic, and started with and used primary ammo.
The Revoker however, has low-zoom, clear sights, slightly slower than average reload, average ready speed, high headshot damage, an EXOTIC TIER PERK THAT ALLOWS ANY MISSED SHOTS TO BE REFUNDED AND IS LEGENDARY. IT CAN ALSO BE GREATLY ENHANCED BY MODS.
Why, if i'm looking for a great kinetic sniper rifle, would I do any raids, farm iron banner, play gambit, or run Trials, if i can just play Comp and kill enemies with snipers and get a free sniper with no drawbacks? That's a problem. There is literally no reason to use anything else because this sniper is the best at everything.
If you have a massive impact sniper rifle and you have decent aim control in conjunction with never losing ammo on a missed shot, whats stopping you from taking those aggressive shots that you can still miss? After all, in only a few moments, your missed shots are returned. You can take a shot that has a great chance of missing or hitting and either way you benefit no matter the outcome, forcing the enemy to play you to a stalemate. Your average Crucible player knows not to push a sniper lane if they already are sighted in on you, as you can be one shotted and they cannot.
"Yeah but you can cancel out a sniper with a sniper!"
Not if i have a Revoker to slide around the corner with, trade shots, force you to back up while you're waiting for your next shot to ready all while I get my wasted shot back. Now you're down to a single shot, and i have two. If we both miss our next shots, I get mine back and you don't. Now you can't counter me unless you rush, then you're still at the disadvantage because I can either:
A: Body shot, swap weapons and one shot you and still have another shot for your teammates.
B: Headshot you and still have another shot for your teammates.
C: Miss a shot, swap weapons, team fire you and kill you, and STILL get my bullet back.
If that wasn't bad enough, it can be combined with the single most ridiculous and flat out stupid idea Bungie has ever made into reality.
The Gnawing Hunger.
Gnawing Hunger can roll with better stats than its solar counterpart, the Summoner which you have to play Trials to have a chance at winning, so why am I able to completely avoid Trials for a better reward than what Trials of Osiris has to offer?
Not only that, but on console, the Gnawing hunger reigns supreme over everything. It flinches hard, it fires fast, reloads fast, and can kill in 8 shots with most having around 40-50 shots in a single mag. Its incredible at close and medium ranges, but can quickly close distance and take large chunks of health out from scout rifle tier ranges. If you thought it stopped there, it also can be combined with Revoker because Gnawing Hunger is an energy weapon, and can roll for EVERY DAMAGE PERK, ZEN MOMENT, CAN COME WITH A STABILITY MASTERWORK, AND CAN STILL BE EQUIPPED WITH A MOD.
There is LITERALLY no way to beat this gun if you are on console, unless you are able to land the first shot, switch to Gnawing HungeSummoner, surprise the enemy, or use a special weapon, in which there's still a strong chance you'll be flinched to all hell and won't land your shots. (even shotguns)
On PC, its a slightly different story. In Trials on PC, and even the regular game modes for that matter, snipers reign supreme. Top players of high-skill game modes (i'm talking to all you IFrostBoltI players out there) struggle with facing off against Revoker, Beloved, Gnawing Hungers, Dire Promises, and Hackers. Even if you have the most competent and high-skill ceiling set up completely mastered, all it takes is someone with decent accuracy and a Gnawing Hunger with Zen Moment and Hi-Caliber Rounds to completely eliminate you as a threat.
Read these viable weapon combo's for Crucible.
Last Word, Beloved, Bad Omens
Last Word, Felwinter's Lie, Bad Omens
Thorn, Beloved, Bad Omens
Thorn, Felwinter's Lie, Bad Omens
Revoker, Gnawing Hunger, Wardcliff Coil
Okay....So?
Beloved, Gnawing Hunger, and Bad Omens are easily farmable for god rolls at the Menagerie and Prismatic re-castor. I intentionally left out swords because majority of players don't use them for kills, they use them to sword peek. The Last Word, Thorn, and Felwinter's come from quests (although Felwinter's isn't obtainable anymore), and the Wardcliff coil is a world drop but you can still get it from decoding unfocused umbral engrams once you've upgraded your Prismatic Re-castor enough as they give every unfocused umbral engram a 10% chance to drop an exotic when decoded.
Well whats the problem with that?
6 of these weapons account for 40.4% of all competitive crucible kills, and if swords were used as intended they would be higher on the total crucible kill chart too (remember this!)
All the values are listed here, but ill list the percentage of the ones i used below.
Gnawing Hunger- 11.7%
Revoker- 8.2%
Felwinter's Lie- 6.12%
Beloved- 5.14%
Dire Promise- 5.10%
SUROS Regime- 4.14%
These 6 weapons make up over 40% of all competitive Crucible kills. 6. Out of how many weapons in this game?
And why is Beloved and Gnawing Hunger so easily farmable but have the best rolls out of any auto-rife and sniper-rifle respectively? (excluding revoker)
And why is Felwinter's no longer accessible to everyone? If you're going to put a weapon in the game that doesn't have worthy opposition, then not give everyone a chance to earn it, you create a problem in which most players cant cross a skill threshold because they don't have anything strong enough to contend with the apexes.
I wont address anything from Beloved or below because obviously some weapons are going to be a much better option than others, but I will say that for how easy it is to get a god roll beloved, there should be a grind or more effort to get it. I got mine in 14 menagerie runs. Fluted Barrel, Appended Magazine, Snapshot, Quickdraw, Handling masterwork.
I excluded addressing Felwinter's Lie because its supposed to be incredibly strong but it needs to be available for all players if its going to seriously outclass anything else i should pick. Make Saladin give you an alternative, more difficult quest whenever Iron Banner is in, so everyone can get it but you actually have to earn it. I don't even have Felwinter's and I don't feel its so problematic to the point of ruining the game.
Out of the hundreds of Legendary weapons and the 48 exotic weapons, why is gnawing hunger responsible for 11% of all competitive and non-competitive crucible kills?
Because Bungie chooses not to individually balance weapons but instead is choosing to make new content.
However, i'm not complaining about the new content, i'm complaining about the fact that instead of listening to community feedback, instead of sandbox testing, and instead of working towards fixing the current game we all know and appreciate- not love- instead they're adding more when we need to work on what we have now too.
Sunsetting is making Revoker and all the other top class PvP weapons useless so it doesn't matter anways?
You're right and you're wrong. Non of the weapons being sunset are going to be useless in PvP outside of Trials and Iron banner. It, along with every other gamebreaking weapon will still exist and that's fine, but not for the Survival game mode (ranked).
Fine, how do you fix Revoker.
No aim assist, no reserves. Landing headshot kills will grant a shot to return to the magazine. If your sniper has the potential to never run out of ammo, then you don't need aim assist. You get ammo from missing shots, so why should you be rewarded for that? You should be rewarded for getting your precision.
If you're upset about it being nerfed and how that could effect PvE, I say its not meant for PvE. Many weapons in this game are not ideal PvP weapons so for you to get a sniper that requires you to play ranked PvP and get sniper kills in PvP, it needs to be balanced for PvP. and kills I understand it's a pinnacle weapon but it isn't fair or fun to try and play against and it forces people to just stay back and camp for supers and sword peek.
It's also the reason people for the most part never run any other Kinetic snipers. Eye of sol is a trials weapon, Bit of the Fox is an Iron banner weapon, Silicon Neuroma is a nightfall weapon, Supremacy is a raid weapon, and I have no reason to go for them because this is better than every legendary and exotic sniper for crucible and you can still run S tier energy weapons with it.
You got the sniper from being a good sniper, so you need to be a good sniper to use it to best ability.
Archetype fixes.
Hand Cannons are also a much larger presence and problem in PvP Crucible, as the fast pace of the gameplay in conjunction with needing only make minor aim adjustments make the 150rpm hand cannons near unbeatable in the hands of dedicated PvP players. I understand there must be a skill ceiling where you reach the peak of your personal skill and for your skill you should be rewarded which is why i don't gripe over hand cannons as much. However, saying it isn't problematic when everyone swaps to Spare Rations or Dire Promise would be a lie on my part.
In all honesty I don't know how you could balance hand cannon's besides buffing the other hand cannon archetypes to make them more viable. I really don't know.
Cheap weapons and hackers.
Mountaintop should not be a one shot kill in Crucible. Mountaintop should not have sticky grenades that take eons to detonate. Mountaintop should not be a top pick for any ranked game mode. Players should not have to use Mountaintop with sticky grenades to counter hackers, because Bungie has failed to do something about them for this long.
Whoever has allowed The Mountaintop to go unchanged in the Crucible for this long needs to be fired from the balancing department along with the guy in charge of getting the Anti-cheat up and running, along with his boss.
For PvE Mountaintop is great and should remain unchanged, but as long as there is Special Ammo on spawn, Mountaintop should not one shot or be nearly as viable as it is. Please comment and tell me how, in a gamemode such a Trials where the best of the best go head to head for the ultimate victory, is a weapon that can one shot anywhere to the body, flies straight, and can be switched to mini proximity mines, allowed. That is an incredibly dumb decision and in fact, when people don't use it for the whole game, then switch to it when they start losing because they KNOW its a crutch? It shouldn't be in Crucible at ALL in my opinion but I think i'm just biased against it.
And the excuse that it's difficult to get isn't viable. I got mine in 3 days of average playtime in Mayhem Control while using Colony, Militias birthright, and truthteller.
Sword Peeking.
Stop allowing players to hold a sword with no ammo. It serves no use and its melee attack does less than a regular melee.
Id love to head replies and talk to you guys about what you think. Thanks for reading.
submitted by WarmDishWater to DestinyTheGame

In the Loop v2, Chapter 4

(for chapter 1, click here: https://www.reddit.com/HFY/comments/gtfxzs/in_the_loop_v2_chapter_1/)
Day 4
For a horrible moment, I thought this fantasy was recursive.
The day started with depressingly familiar unfamiliarity: when I opened my eyes, the first thing I realized was that I wasn’t where I was when I’d gone to sleep.
At that, I jolted fully awake, causing my laptop to slip off my lap, crashing against the floor. I winced. Mom and Dad had given me flak for breaking my computer screen so many times that I half-expected them to materialize and start chewing me out.
But nobody came.
I shook off the morning fugue, rubbing the sleep out of my eyes. Out of habit, I popped open my laptop to assess the damage. To my surprise, it immediately flared to life, revealing a web of cracks emanating outwards from where it’d hit the ground which completely obscured the left half of the screen. And it only had 2% battery. Great. I had probably left it on by accident at some point, and had utterly wasted what little power it had left. I raked back through my memory. Oh, oops. Yesterday, when I’d arrived, I hadn’t even thought about shutting off my laptop, being too caught up in taking pictures of glaciers and gawking like a tourist. I shook my head—
The cracked screen restored itself.
I froze mid-head-shake, then gave my laptop a careful second glance. In addition to the crack I’d just made being gone, the general dings and dents a laptop in a clumsy owner’s hands would accumulate over the years had faded away. The fingerprint-smudges that I didn’t clean from my screen nearly often enough were still there, but other than that, the computer looked like the day I’d bought it.
And there was a document open in the center of the screen, entitled In The Loop.
I gave it a hesitant glance, then jerked back in surprise as the words flashed past, scrolling downwards at inhuman speed. Despite its length, my eyes somehow effortlessly inhaled the work, words and stories flooding into my mind—
—and bringing with them memories.
Suddenly, just as clearly as if I’d been there myself, I remembered Svranth’s abuses. I remembered Lilian’s laugh. I remembered Yule’s blank, implacable expression, and I remembered her single mercy.
In other words, I remembered the last two days. Two whole days which had been stolen from me.
I rubbed my forehead. Okay. Damn. Wow. That seemed like it would be exceedingly useful in my current situation, but my computer was now down to one percent. Crap. My fancy new memory-Skill was useless if my laptop died. I fumbled into my backpack to get my phone and power cable. Could you charge a computer from a phone? I’d only ever done it the other way around. And could you—
Suddenly, the battery refilled, jerking back up to 2%.
I blinked twice, trying to understand. Hmm. Self-repairing computer whose battery refilled when its life nearly reached its end? Sounded suspiciously similar to my old self-repairing journal whose pages refilled when I nearly reached its end. I smelled the influence of [Journal: Undying Story].
I sorted through my memories of last night, piecing together what’d happened, and nodded to myself. Yeah, that made sense. I still wasn’t a hundred percent certain how I’d done it, but it seemed pretty clear from the evidence that I’d moved my journal from living in the now-ruined book to my computer, and as a result, gained a self-charging, regenerating computer.
For a moment, a spark of joy kindled in me. A computer with an infinite battery life? I’d done in three days what tech companies couldn’t do in fifty years! Sure, it wasn’t anywhere close to as useful without internet access, but it was the next best thing to a miracle, and it might well be exactly what I needed to take on Svranth and escape the Slant.
And then my smile faded. Oh, God. I’d have to take on Svranth if I wanted to escape the Slant. And now, I finally knew what I was up against. I hesitated to even think about it, in case Svranth somehow picked up on it and—
“Hey, kid.” I actually screamed aloud and fell on my butt as Lilian jolted me out of my thoughts; her friendly grin turned more quizzical than hurt this time around. “...uh, okay. What’s up with the… light… thing?” She pointed at my computer.
“This?” I looked around, but the other six fur-clads were all intently talking in a close-knit knot, paying me no attention. Hmm. Well, in the previous two iterations, Lilian had seemed harmless enough. “It’s, uh… it’s a journal, of sorts. It… restores memories.”
She frowned. “Restores memories? What do you mean?” She leaned over to look at it—
Once more, the log of my time here burst into motion, words whipping past her vision. As I watched in shock, her eyes moved supernaturally fast to keep up; after a mere second or two, she stumbled back with a startled cry.
“Lilian!” I knelt by her side, aghast; the motion made me keenly aware of the echoing aches I still felt from what I’d gone through on Day 2. “Oh, God, I’m so sorry, I didn’t realize it would do that—”
She took in a deep, gasping breath for air, as if she’d been plunged underwater and had just resurfaced. “You’re from another world!”
I stared. “Um. How did you—”
“You really did get teleported here! I was wondering where you came from!” Her expression of shock and wonder was almost comical, but now it darkened into a scowl. “Wait. We’ve had this conversation three times now! And every time you freak out when I say hi!”
I was beginning to catch on. “Well, not the exact same conversation—”
“Oh. Oh, blazes.” Her face went pale. “We’ve had this conversation three times in a row because Svranth—”
I slapped a hand over her mouth, strangling the end of her sentence to nothing. Still, we both knew we were thinking it. Lilian gave me an affronted glare for a moment and carefully removed my hand.
“Someone’s wiping everyone’s memories at the end of each day,” she whispered, “and come on, it’s gotta be Svranth. From what I just saw—”
“What did you just see?” I hissed back.
“Hm? Oh. Your memories of the past three days,” she nonchalantly said.
All of them?” I grabbed my hair in frustration. “Seriously! Why can everything in this world read my mind? Literally! Everything!”
“...Sorry.” She sat down next to me and drew her knees to her chest. “If it makes you feel any better, they’re… really interesting memories.”
“Yeah, but they’re mine. I don’t want…” I trailed off, looking at Lilian, and sighed. “It’s just… invasive, you know?”
“I guess you didn’t grow up with Illithids, huh? You have no idea what it’s like, being hit on by someone who’s been rooting through your mind for a week.”
I let out a disgusted snort. “Wow. I hope a pickup artist from Earth never comes here. Blood would fly.”
Lilian’s eyebrows raised at the mention of ‘pickup artist’, but she didn’t comment on it. “Okay. Okay, okay, no, I just—I need to wrap my head around this. You’re from another world.
“Yeah.” I sighed. “I am.”
“And—and you leveled up eight times in three days?!”
I wanly smiled. “Yep. For what it’s worth.”
“For what it’s worth? If you could keep that up, you’d be able to kick Svranth’s slimy squid butt right back into the ocean!”
I raised an eyebrow. “Back into the ocean?”
“Illithids come from the sea,” Lilian absently said, “they have underwater cities or something. It’s why basically nobody’s heard of them; a society of mind-manipulators which doesn’t want people poking into their business is pretty hard to find.”
Underwater cities and secret societies. I managed a regretful grin. “...I would love this world so goddamn much if it wasn’t trying its hardest to break me.”
Lilian stared at me, surprised. “You would?”
“You have… magic. Real magic. You have the impossible sitting right outside your doorstep. Things like Svranth, and you, and these memories, and… a home.” I curled up on the floor, staring without seeing at my journal. “So many things that I couldn’t see them all, even if I lived a thousand, thousand lifetimes. Let alone one more day.”
Lilian watched me, mouth slightly open, speechless. Then she said, “Yule should be coming soon, based on those memories. You should put that artifact away.”
I scoffed. “Artifact. It’s nothing special. Probably billions of them back on Earth, and I managed to go through one every other year. Mom and Dad would get so mad—” I froze.
Lilian gave me a concerned glance. “Alex?”
I sat up straight. Slowly, deliciously, wondrously, a fire kindled in my eyes.
“Alex? Are you okay?” Lilian let out a little ‘eep!’ in surprise when I snapped my laptop shut and put it in my backpack, wedging a pencil between the lid and the keyboard so that it wouldn’t fully close and turn off my Skill. The bricks and mortar of facts and causality snapped together in my mind, building the foundation of a plan.
“Seriously, Alex. Did I… break you? Alex, you’re scaring me.”
I slung my backpack over my shoulder and stood up. “No. No, quite the opposite,” I murmured.
“Of—what’s the opposite of scaring me?”
“What?” I laughed. “No, no, not that.” I met Lilian’s eyes and said, “The opposite of breaking.”
Yule had marched in, still smelling of smoke from yesterday, given the exact same speech as before—down to the intonation—and left, after which I’d gone outside without complaint. A pet theory of mine started to gain credence.
WELCOME TO THE LOOP. An all-too-familiar sensation tingled in the back of my mind: Svranth’s telepathy. We had all lined up in the snow while Svranth did their daily speech. I AM SVRANTH, [CONTROLLER] OF THE SLANT. DURING THE SPAN OF YOUR WORK, YOU ANSWER TO ME.
Hi, Svranth. I’m Alex. Hope we can get to know each other real well, I experimentally thought. As with Wlosh, I got no reaction, and the steady pulse of determination inside me redoubled.
AS I AM SURE YOU HAVE BEEN TOLD, A SKILL OF MINE HAS GRANTED A RANDOM NUMBER OF YOU ACCESS TO A VARIETY OF POWERFUL CLASSES AND SKILLS. YOU WILL SHORTLY RECEIVE INSTRUCTIONS ON HOW TO USE THEM. AFTER YOU HAVE ABSORBED THIS INFORMATION, REMAIN STILL FOR THE [OVERSEERS] TO DISTRIBUTE EQUIPMENT. Svranth continued. All familiar, right down to the puff of displaced air as a pickaxe and set of furs materialized around me.
To my surprise, Svranth’s voice echoed in my mind one additional time. I HAVE GRANTED YOU THE SKILL [DELAY WOUNDS]. THIS IS A POWERFUL SKILL WHICH WILL ALLOW YOU TO INDEFINITELY DELAY ANY INJURY WITHOUT CONSEQUENCE.
Well, that sounded like a big ol’ steaming load of lies, because that was functionally equivalent to immortality. Svranth didn’t make my brain explode for thinking that, which put a little more hope in my heart. I made a mental note—literally, since my [Journal: Live Biography] was still recording all this—to look into what [Delay Wounds] actually did later, and figuring out why Svranth would lie about it.
As before, the same instructions carved themselves into my mind: Go to Yule and begin mining downwards at Depth 37. A flutter of mixed emotions twirled through me. On one hand, getting stuck with Yule again was going to be absolutely terrifying, yes, but on the other, if my plan actually worked
As before, Lilian was assigned to work with Krshoth. She gave me a tentative wave goodbye; I distractedly waved back, mind swirling with possibilities. If I failed here, if my bluff was called… well, I supposed it wouldn’t have gone much better than if I didn’t try to escape at all.
When I reached Yule, she still reeked of smoke.
As I approached Yule, she gave me a familiarly disbelieving look. “Seriously? You’re in my mining group, too? You’re worse than a case of the worms. I’m getting you transferred into another group tomorrow.”
The same words as on Day 2. That as much as confirmed my hunch: Yule’s memory was being wiped as well. I didn’t know why yet, but it gave me a chance, a crack to work my fingernail into. I raised an eyebrow. “Think Svranth will let you do that?”
She gave me a bemused look. “Sure, kid. Anyways, you guys have the simplest job out of any of us here. We’re looking for Ytrine—a sort of psychic residue that gets left behind when something dies. Normally, the stuff dissipates too quickly to be of any use to anyone, but up north, there’s a chance that something dies and gets frozen quickly enough that the Ytrine stays inside. Ytrine deposits look like frozen dead stuff; don’t break them, or Svranth will shove an apocalypse up your butt. Your job is to dig straight down and get the shiny magic doodads. So simple, a Yeti could do it. Got it?”
I nodded, meeting her eyes with a calm little smile.
Her expression was pensive as she looked back at me; she definitely suspected I was up to something. Her instincts didn’t provide enough impetus for her to call me out on it, though, and she moved her gaze back to the rest of the miners. “Alright, let’s see here… yeah, those four should work. [Mass Basic Footwork.] [Mass Remove Inhibitors.] [Mass Dampen Pain.] [Unit: Euphoria Drillers.] Go!”
Once more, I felt that utter numbness crawl in my veins, reaching into my nerves and switching them off one by one. I lifted the pickaxe—mindful of how easy it would be to overexert myself and tear a muscle, this time around—and casually said, “You know, I had a really weird dream last night.”
Yule steadfastly ignored me.
“It had you in it,” I added.
At that, she snorted. “You’re too young for me, pipsqueak. And I don’t swing that way.”
“It started with you burning a book,” I continued.
Yule froze. Ah. So she had some knowledge of what happened the night before, even if she was also subject to the mind-wipes. Maybe a journal of her own? “Is that so?” Yule cautiously said.
“Oh, yeah. In the dream, you used this crazy Skill, [Override Imperative]. Second-scariest form of mind control I’ve seen this week.” I winked.
Yule went absolutely still for a second. Then, in a familiar, overpowering voice, she said, “How did you know I had that Skill?
That awful void crept over me, and I said, “My computer told me.”
She frowned. “Your computer? What is that?
“A computer is a manmade device which can perform complex algorithmic tasks. I think transistors are involved somewhere? They’re made of, uh, silicon and semiconductors and aluminum and other really complicated stuff that I don’t understand. They can also surf the web and play video games and—”
Yule growled, “Get to the point.
“My computer,” I said, carefully, “stores memories for me.”
Yule held out a hand, eyes narrowed. “Give it to me.
I shrugged nonchalantly, although my heart was thudding. If I screwed up here, everything was going to go to hell. I held out my backpack. “It’s inside. But!” I interrupted her just as she reached out for it. “Before you destroy it, you’re going to want to make sure Svranth’s not going to check up on us again.”
She scoffed, regaining her irreverent demeanor. “Kid, I think you’re a few strippers short of an orgy. You’re not the one in control here.”
“No,” I agreed amenably, “Svranth is. Which is why I’m oh-so-curious to find out what they’ll do when they find out that you’re working against them.”
Even the other half-drugged miners stopped at that.
Yule’s eyes widened, and she jerked her hand back from the bag. “Keep mining,” she hissed. The clank of pickaxes on stone started up again.
God, I was sweating. I couldn’t help but do as she said, but she’d never told me to stop talking. I slung my backpack on my back once more and resumed breaking the rock. “You see,” I said, “unlike you, I remember what happened yesterday, where you confessed to me that you weren’t on Svranth’s side. And if you try to hurt me, well… I already know what happens when I get hurt enough to stop mining. Svranth comes along to… give me a hand, heh. And no matter how beaten up I am, you can’t stop me from telling a mind-reader to have a dig through my memories. Sure, I’ll go down for it, but so will you. And you have a lot more to lose than me.”
“Yes. You’re very clever, blackmailing someone ten Levels higher than you.” She clenched her fists. “Kid, you have no idea how deep the iceberg you’ve stumbled on goes. You could get hundreds of people killed—”
“Which is why I’m not going to.” I metronomically continued crushing the stone at my feet. “Let’s face it: I outmaneuvered you. With half your Levels and a tenth of your resources, I’ve got you good and trapped. And you know what?” I sighed, something dark dripping into the stream of [Euphoria] blowing through me. “I… don’t want to hurt you. I want to help you. If I can get you here, having this conversation with me as an equal, with nothing to work with but my head and a glorified journal... what if I had access to the kinds of resources you have? Working together? We could go for bigger fish.”
Yule might have been crude, boisterous, disdainful, self-justified, too empathetic for her own good, controlling, and just a dash of amoral. But she wasn’t stupid. And in the end… she didn’t want to hurt me, either. I didn’t know what her endgame was, but from what I saw, she was fundamentally a decent person. I saw her considering the offer.
And then she grunted. “You’re weak.”
Hm. “You keep calling me that. A soft little thing. A kid.”
“It’s because you are,” she stated, without rancor. “Yeah. Fine. You can scheme. I’m not going to give you a reason to turn on me, not with a fart like the one you’ve got stored up ready to rip. Likewise, I have assurance that you’re not going to yank my chain too hard, because if you do, well, it might just squeeze one out of my bum, eh? You get too uppity, I just tell Svranth that you’re bypassing their mind-wipe. And if either of us are dumb enough to let it rip, well, we’ll be right in the center of our own stink. So if we know what’s good for us, we won’t… feed each other laxatives, so to speak.”
“You, madam, are a poet with words,” I quipped.
“But there’s one thing you didn’t think of.” Her eyes went dull and flat, like a lizard’s, and while the subzero winter couldn’t get through my furs, I felt a chill run up my spine. “I don’t think for a second it’s because you couldn’t—not with a noggin like that on your head. No, you refused to accept this possibility because you wouldn’t.”
She stepped up to me and held out her hand; a wickedly sharp pickaxe materialized with a pop.
“If I wanted, I could simply kill you where you stood.”
I raised an eyebrow.
And then I exploded into motion.
I shifted my stance, getting the full weight of my back and hips behind the blow as I spun, [Basic Footwork] guiding my steps. With a burst of hysterical strength, I smashed her pickaxe out of her hands even as she crouched into a ready position; with the [Removed Inhibitors] powering my arms, her pick splintered into a thousand pieces, only narrowly avoiding gouging out one of our eyes when it flickered out of existence as it left her hand. She opened her mouth to speak, but I hooked the pickaxe behind her neck and jerked her forwards, drawing her into a vicious headbutt.
It was like slamming my head into a stone floor.
But the [Dampened Pain] was nothing more than a light tickle.
Even Yule was stunned by that, stumbling backwards and landing on her back. Rivulets of blood snaked across my forehead, and I grinned madly, [Euphoria] lending me confidence beyond my own. With a vicious crack, I slammed my pickaxe down half an inch from her face. Yule reflexively flinched, stone chips bouncing off her skin.
If,” I snarled, my blood mixing with hers.
A frozen heartbeat passed.
Then Yule got to her knees.
I offered her a hand.
She took it and stood up.
And she began to laugh, with a savage, hearty guffaw.
“You. Alex.” She released my hand and slapped me on the back. “This could work.”
I nodded. “It will work.”
“I’ll get you a healing potion for your forehead; head wounds are nothing to joke around with. We’ll talk later today. Until then… keep mining.” When I opened my mouth to speak, she held up a hand. The gesture held all the force her [Override Imperative] did; when she lifted her hand, I froze. “I believe you. You’re strong enough and smart enough to help me help you. But if you don’t get back to mining real soon, Svranth’s going to come over to find out why you’re not, and then this whole enterprise is going to come tumbling all the way down.”
Oh. After all that, that would’ve been awfully embarrassing, wouldn’t it have? I nodded once, sharply, then returned to mining, the mechanical motions ripping at my arms.
I continued to break new ground, digging myself deeper and deeper in.
As soon as the work day ended and I trudged back into my room, I sat down and popped open my computer. After a bit of hesitation, I concentrated for a moment, focusing my desires, and felt something click. I disabled the [Journal: Live Biography].
It was just me writing, now.
I drummed my fingers on the keyboard for a minute or two, simply sitting there, mulling things over. Then, I started to type.
Hey, Mom. Dad.
You’re never going to read this, are you.
I’m not an idiot. I won… a victory, of sorts, today, but… one way or another, I don’t think I’m coming home.
There’s just too much. Too damn much. There’s slavery and politics and eldritch horrors and I’m just a high school student and I can’t deal with what I’m going to have to do to get out of here because I just know that today is only the beginning and
I hurt someone today
I enjoyed hurting someone today
I know Yule isnt the best person but shes a person and i shouldnt have felt so good so powerful standing over her like that and if thats who i have to become then WHAT THE FUCK IS THE POINT OF ME
Dad, you taught me how to think. And I’m grateful for that. If it wasn’t for you being… well, you, then I never would’ve been able to dream that plan up. At best, I would’ve thought of challenging Yule while her Skills were making me a match for her physically; your politicking was how I realized what she wanted from me, how I held something over her but gave her something to hold over me too, and in the process showed her I was smart enough not to push her too far, smart enough to work with her as an equal.
But you could’ve done a whole lot better with the why.
I don’t want to have to think like this. I want to be able to see all the goddamn wonders in this world, because I know they’re there. The people. The cities. The magic. It’s all so beautiful, and so alien, and… God, you would love it here. More than you’d ever loved anything.
Mom… I miss you. I don’t know what you would’ve done here. But I know it would’ve been the right thing. I know everyone here would’ve known it was the right thing, too. You could charge the gates of Hell itself and a hundred hundred people would follow you.
Maybe I’m in Hell.
I hope you can read this someday, I really do. I just… Please. You must be—God, I can’t imagine what you’re going through right now. Dad, you’re… digging, probably. With your own two hands, just how you like it. Are you pulling up missing persons reports? Interviewing passerby? Begging, cheating, stealing traffic camera tapes?
And Mom, I’d bet anything that you’re mobilizing. The extended family, your diving club, everyone I knew at school—they’re all searching right now, aren’t they? From California to Beijing to Adelaide to Essex to Dubai—you know someone everywhere. If I was anywhere on Earth, I could almost believe you’d find me.
I’m sorry. I’m so, so sorry.
I love you.
After a moment, I took a deep, shuddering breath, and turned the [Biography] back on. I had a feeling I wouldn’t want to relive what happened next.
I stood up and turned around.
Lilian was right behind me, tears of shock streaking down her face.
“What—” I looked between her and the screen, the letter I’d written. Suddenly, an awful, bitter fury swelled up inside me, black bile at the back of my throat, and I clenched my fists. “You weren’t supposed to see that.”
“Alex…”
“THAT WAS MINE!” I roared, spit flying, eyes wild, “I NEEDED THAT!”
“Alex, stop it!” Lilian screamed back, “You can’t—”
“You don’t know me,” I seethed, “You don’t know where I’m from, you don’t know who I am, you don’t know what I can and cannot do and so God help me—” I slammed my palm into Lilian’s chest— “you will damn well apologize for presuming to barge into my life and—”
“I’m not apologizing for anything,” Lilian said, quiet, still, unflinching.
Yule’s Skills wore off.
I was a star, a crucible, a forge of true, harsh, madness-bringing mind-tearing heart-splitting pain, a never-ending dream-rending symphony of suffering, and I was screaming, screaming, screaming
“[Delay Wounds]!” I slapped a hand to my chest, and suddenly, cool, numb relief crawled through me, culling my thoughts, freezing my heart.
Lilian was on the floor too, now, doubled over, quietly crying.
I realized how much she was bleeding.
The red mist clawing at my vision withdrew. My head was ringing, my thoughts were echoing, leaving me floating, strangely detached, hollowed out. I knelt by her side and took her hand in mine.
“[Delay Wounds],” I murmured once more. I felt power leave me in a rush, a chilling torrent of glacial whispers. Lilian whimpered once, then fell still.
I knelt next to her, wondering what kind of monster I was.
Yule chose that moment to return.
I gathered myself. Right. Work now. Hate later.
You lot. Sleep.” Yule flicked a hand at the five remaining fur-clads; as if struck from behind, they all collapsed. That was good and terrifying. Yule sat criss-cross opposite me, eyeing Lilian curiously.
“She your girlfriend?” Yule asked.
“Yule.”
She looked away. “Not the time. I get it.” She sighed. “Healing potion. Essence of regeneration. The good stuff. Should fix you up, even if you’ve used that cursed Skill of yours.”
“Cursed Skill?”
“[Delay Wounds]. You can delay almost anything up to amputation or worse—but it’ll get exponentially worse each time you do. Until you’re depending on it to keep you alive. Until suddenly, it can’t.” My eyes widened, and she nodded. “Svranth has files on all your Classes and Levels. It’s… well, what did you expect from a [Broken] Class?”
I hesitated. Then I brought the potion to Lilian’s lips and tilted a good two-thirds of it down her throat.
“I have the Skill to fall back on. She doesn’t,” I said in response to her questioning look, “And besides, you can get more of those.”
“Eh…” She made a so-so gesture. “You should’ve told me I’d gotten you a healing potion in a previous iteration of this day. Taking out two from storage in a week is suspicious. Taking out three is… not that viable.”
“Right. Let’s start with that.” I tossed back the remaining third of the healing potion. It tasted hopeful. “You’re being mind-wiped too. Why?”
She sighed. “I don’t know.”
I blinked. “...what, really?”
“Even when I’m a part of Svranth, they don’t tell me. It’s one of the major things I’m trying to fix—”
“Stop. When you’re a part of Svranth?
“Svranth is a hivemind. Their constituent minds rotate out every now and then. Sometimes unwillingly.”
“If you become a part of Svranth, then why can’t you just… get rid of the Slant? Stop the mind-wipes and the slavery?”
“I’m a part of Svranth. So are a lot of other people. I’m not in control.” She grimaced. “But if I could, I would abolish the Slant in its entirety.”
“Really?”
“We don’t need it. We have more than enough money as an independent city-state already; all this Ytrine and gold just sits in our vaults, adding to a pile of wealth we don’t even draw from. We could live for a decade on our savings alone, even if we didn’t invest in more humane sources of revenue.”
“I’ll take your word for it. What is the exact nature of the Slant?”
“Misery. Constant abuse. We snatch up workers eager to improve their lot and then spirit them away in our moving city, where the villages and towns we take them from are too far away to raise a fuss if they care about the missing ones. To prevent rebellion and keep everyone moving, we wipe their minds each day, dangling the carrot of that luxurious first day so that they keep going until they wear their bodies out. The icing on the cake? We turn the dead ones into more Ytrine. It’s the most brutal, most productive engine of wealth I’ve ever seen.”
That was all my worst fears confirmed. But I had to keep moving. “What are Svranth’s capabilities and weaknesses?”
“They’re a very powerful telepath. They can obliterate someone’s mind without much effort if they want, and there’s basically nothing anyone short of Level 30 can do to stop it. Making more subtle manipulations, like altering or reading memories, or taking control of a body, are harder, but not by that much. Their main weakness is that they can’t be everywhere—nothing which they don’t specifically pay attention to will catch their notice, and at this point, they don’t pay attention to a whole lot unless someone goes off the rails to catch their attention.”
“To what extent can you remember previous days?”
“Almost none,” she said, “I’m not literate and I don’t have a calendar, other than watching the Loop to see how much it’s moved by. I leave myself pictures, which are… cryptic and unsettling. A broken wrist and a burning book… I’d like to know what happened the past two days.”
I relayed everything I could to her. To her credit, she asked precise questions when necessary and rapidly absorbed everything I said. “You mentioned something cryptic about being a ‘mind breaker’ when I asked how you were deflecting Svranth’s attention. What did you mean?”
“It’s my [Override Imperative]. I can command myself to not think about something. Unless Svranth does a detailed scan, repressed memories won’t show up.”
Hmm. Interesting. Alright. “All this said… what the hell are you planning on doing about this?”
She swallowed and looked away. “Honestly? I don’t know. I was waiting for an opportunity.” She looked at me, and her gaze was an almost tangible thing. “Looks like I found one.”
I stood up. “I don’t want to go through this rigamarole again. How can I convince you I’m worth working with again?”
“A password. Tell me… ‘Vyrmarr.’”
“Vyrmarr.” I tried the thick, rolling word out. “Does it mean anything?”
“A long, long time ago? It meant, ‘Dreamer.’”
With that, she stood and left.
I watched her go… cautiously… sadly… wearily…
[Rebel Class Obtained!]
[Rebel Level 3!]
[Skill – One Warning Obtained!]
[Healer Class Obtained!]
[Healer Level 1!]
[Broken Level 3.]
[Skill – Endless Agony Obtained.]
[Scribe Level 9!]
[Skill – Third Person View Obtained!]
(next chapter: https://www.reddit.com/HFY/comments/h8aqwq/in_the_loop_v2_chapter_5/)
submitted by rileyriles001 to HFY

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