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My Pro X vs Pro 7 i5. Benchmarks from X Pro Go & Book 2 & pics
We bought my husband a Surface Pro 7 yesterday – the i5/8/128 model. While I was there, I was overtaken with new computer envy and splurged on a Surface Pro X – also the 8/128. I didn’t really need it, but I have a bonus coming and figured why not. I love Surface and I want to see what’s next. For context so you know what my biases are I am a huge Surface fan and have used them exclusively since the Pro 2. Right now, in this house we have a Pro 2, Pro 3, 2 Gos, Book 2, Pro 7, and now the X. I am also very pro Windows 10 and new stuff. I prefer UWP apps and the store whenever possible. I email developers and send feedback when they stay on legacy stuff. I am all in on the MS ecosystem (Onedrive, Outlook, Bing, Edge, etc.) and in the past was a Windows Phone, Band, and Zune user (my Zune 120 is still upstairs.) I am predisposed to being pro Pro X.
As hard as I try I just can’t like this thing. About the only good thing I can say about it is that it looks good in pictures and it feels nice in the hand. Basically, it makes a nice decorative object. But as a computer – for me – it is totally useless. I think maybe it would be good as a computer issued for work if you are like a salesman, or an exec, or an HR person or something. If you can 100% live in a browser and Office it might be all good. And if you travelled for that kind of stuff the size and battery might be nice. But for a developer, musician, gamer, and photo and video dilettante its just not useful.
So far most of the apps I use for creative stuff don’t work. My DAWs and plugins don’t work. Visual Studio will launch but the debugger crashes it. My video editor doesn’t install. And of course no games, not even light games. I can’t picture any of the large creative apps coming to X at all. Adobe will probably ship some stuff eventually but they treat Windows like their crazy old uncle. They’ll stop by and visit, but their focus is on iPad. I can’t picture Pro Tools or Lightworks or Ableton or FL Studio, or even the Cyberlink stuff coming to ARM64.
The one impressive high mark was that WSL does install and all of the Linux binaries it installs are ARM64. That was cool, and gave me hope. But it was all down hill from there. I could probably use the X for work as I do all my dev work (Node and Ruby) in WSL and VS Code at work, so that might work. But it doesn’t seem worth the hassle, and it wouldn’t be super responsible to do my dev work on a different arch from what we release on. Also, I am not sure if my VPN or remote access stuff (Zoom) would work – I work from home so I need all that stuff to work perfectly.
So, the software situation is dire. I knew it would be bad, but it is really bad. I am definitely not a “live in the browser” person and for me this machine just wont do what I do with computers. And, to editorialize a bit – this seems like an insane move from Microsoft. The last 5-10 years has shown one thing very clearly over and over again: developers will not support Microsoft’s new platforms or initiatives. If this was an Apple device there would already be day one betas or at very least statements from every major developer. (See my note at the end on the Apple PPC to Intel transition. I used to be a Mac user back then before Surface and I remember what it was like and can offer some color from that.) On Windows developers are either using legacy tech / Win32 or they are developing in Electron and calling it a Windows app. I don’t understand how a company with a proven track record of being completely and totally unable to move their development community to new tech expected to get them to support a new arch! The only way they could have pulled this off would be to deprecate AMD64 support in everything but enterprise editions and move the entire surface line to ARM, and MS is not that gutsy. That’s a Jobs move, not a Nadella move.
But it actually gets worse. The design of this thing is not good. It is not useful and is a major step back from the Surface tradition of designing for real people and real usage. It seems like the Surface group envy Apple, but they seem to forget that people who choose not to buy Apple – against all of the pressure to do so – do it for a reason. I personally don’t like Apple’s design choices. I think removing ports is bad. I think pursuing thinness over ergonomics is bad. I think eliminating bezels on tablets is dumb. And I was always happy to see Surface be something different. The X’s design apes everything bad Apple has done over the past few years. My hands are always covering part of the screen, I can’t plug in my headphones, it doesn’t have a normal USB port, it doesn’t even have an SD card slot. I can’t plug anything into it except a monitor, and I have no interest in living the dongle life.If I was willing to chase thinness over everything and didn’t care about ports or ergonomics I would just buy an iPad! The X is like all of the bad hardware design of the iPad without its huge software library and enthusiastic developer support. It is the worst of all worlds!
Finally, I’ll say a few words about the new signature type cover. I didn’t want the signature because I already have a pen and its super expensive. I don’t travel so I don’t need it. However, I wasn’t given a choice at the store and didn’t notice until I got home that I got the signature. I really don’t like it. The keyboard and trackpad are of course wonderful and up to the standards of modern TypeCovers, but the new pen is cheap feeling, uncomfortable to hold, and has a thick crayon like tip. I tried my Surface Pen back to back with the new one and I really don’t like the new one. I wouldn’t opt for it after using it. And the new pen cubby on the keyboard is so ugly and adds a huge bump under the cover, ruining its otherwise clean lines. It ads a ton of thickness to the device when closed that defeats the purpose of making all design decisions in the name of thinness. As an example, if you lay the 7 and X on a table with their covers closed the X is thicker – THICKER – because of the huge pen bulge.
So, that’s about it. I don’t recommend the Surface Pro X if you are a Surface user and if you like what Surface has always provided: a focus on productivity, real world usage, practicality, and flexibility. I can’t think of any reason to purchase it over the cheaper, more powerful, more capable, more ergonomic, thinner (with the case), more expandable, Surface Pro 7. I might – might – recommend it to an executive or sales person who travels constantly and literally uses nothing but Office and a browser, or an Apple user who is interested in Surface and puts Apple’s design choices above all other factors. But that’s about it. And even in either of those cases I’d suggest saving the $200 bucks and getting the more powerful, useful, and ergonomic machine. Saving a couple ounces and getting a couple hours more battery life can’t possibly be worth this many compromises for any but a very small and select niche.
Now, as promised, scores. I tested Geekbench 5 on the Pro X, Go 8GB, Pro 7 i5, and Book 2 i7. All machines were plugged in and set to best performance. The version of Geekbench that supports ARM64 was used and the ARM64 tests run. The results are simple: Pro 7 comes out on top in every category and there’s as much or more of a gap in performance between the Pro 7 and the Pro X as there is between the Pro X and the Go. When it comes to raw number crunching in this benchmark – however that maps to real world – the Pro X is not in the same class as the Pro line.
· Pro 7: Single core 1175, Multicore 4413
· Book 2: Single Core 1019, Multicore 3511
· Pro X: Single core 726, Multicore 2785
· Go 8GB: Single core 400, Multicore 912
Historical note on Apple and PPC to Intel as a comparison: I was a Mac user before I was a Surface user. The combination of Apple abandoning their creative users and becoming incredibly conservative and the leap forward that was the Surface got me to switch from a platform I was *very* entrenched in. I lived through the PPC to Intel transition, as well as the tail end of the classic to OS X transition. Time will tell for Windows – but both had a better head start and a better situation than Windows AMD64 to ARM64. Classic and Moto to OS X and PPC was more like this transition. It was rougher, some stuff didn’t work, and it took like 3 major releases of OS X before developers were totally on board. Until 10.3 basically everyone dual booted and even core Apple apps didn’t support OS X. That was a different world though. It was very soon after Steve came back and the bad taste of 90s Apple was still in everyone’s mouths. Classic to OS X took years, but they bet the company on it, leaned in, moved their entire product line and stuck through the hard times. No matter how much people screamed they hated OS X Apple didn’t waver, they didn’t back down, they didn’t extend support until the second coming, they pushed forward and eventually everyone came around. PPC to Intel however was very smooth. Most apps just worked, even high end DAWs, video editors, and development stuff. I went from a Powerbook G4 to a MacBook Pro Core Duo and everything worked for me within a week or two. Xcode worked. My video and audio production stuff worked. Most of the boutique third party stuff was patched within a week or two. Adobe and MS took longer but their apps worked under Rosetta right away. I had one piece of software that didn’t work in the transition – a soft synth AU plugin from Korg – everything else worked. And we had the whole new world of Windows dual booting to ease the pain of any problems. I remember playing Oblivion in Windows 7 on that box. It was amazing. I digress though – the point is Apple had their compatibility layer basically perfect before release and didn’t launch with major gaps. Everything worked except for a small amount of outliers, and they had their developers on board and comitted. Microsoft didn’t go that route. Instead most stuff outside of the store doesn’t work, not even slowly. Their own dev tools don’t work. AMD64 emulation is rumored to be coming, but rumors don’t run software. And of course, the Windows development “community” is basically hostile to the platform and is split between apathetic third parties who are only interested in mobile and consider Electron a Windows app, huge old apps made on god knows what weird development platform that have basically no chance of being ported because they are basically all C or C++ or weird shit like Delphi, and old timers who only care about their internal Win32 LOB apps. No one is going to move. So, I don’t see how this ends well. My guess is that Pro X probably ends up like the original Surface RT, or to a degree Mixed Reality (as much as I love mine), or Groove, or Band, or any of the other ideas MS just couldn’t commit to. If MS was serious about this they’d have to bet the company, just like Apple did on OS X and later Intel. A single expensive machine that does less for more money and is basically a solution in search of a problem is not going to make this happen.
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UK, ~£300 used Looking for mid-2010's laptops which have dedicated graphics
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- Do you prefer a 2 in 1 form factor, good battery life or best specifications for the money? Pick or include any that apply. It's going to be a stay at home laptop, so performance is paramount
- How important is weight and thinness to you? Heavy is good, heavy is reliable.
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- Do you have a preferred screen size? If indifferent, put N/A. Less than 17 inches, more than 11.
- Are you doing any CAD/video editing/photo editing/gaming? List which programs/games you desire to run. Adobe Photoshop, Sony Vegas, FL Studio; all used infrequently and not for critical work, only need "good enough" performance.
- If you're gaming, do you have certain games you want to play? At what settings and FPS do you want? Old Skyrim, Fallout N:V, Oblivion etc. Closer to 60 fps the better, hopefully at full resolution and whatever settings work.
Now I know the price point I'm looking at is a bit (read: stupidly) low however I'm in no desperate need and I enjoy trying to snag a bargain at auction.
What I need help with is: what models/makes/lines/names of laptops typically have dedicated cards? (which also happen to be a few years old, so they're cheap)
So far I'm aware of the HP Omen series, they seem to be kitted out with i5/i7 processors and beefy cards, GTX 960's and even 1060's!
There's also the Acer Nitro laptops which are decked with similar spicy components.
Both of these laptops seem to fluctuate in price WILDLY, some going for £300 and others for £500+ despite being identical
What are some other laptops like these? Not necessarily "gaming" laptops (as in ones with edgy red stuff) but just laptops with dedicated graphics.
Are there any business laptops with graphics cards?
I just need pointers on what to search for.
also, I have no idea what's what with AMD stuff, all the graphics cards I've found are called r7 but they never state WHICH r7.